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Comments on: The Real History of the Recall https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/ Author, Columnist Tue, 10 Apr 2012 03:25:52 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.5 By: Other Side https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/comment-page-1/#comment-96985 Tue, 10 Apr 2012 03:25:52 +0000 http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=2028#comment-96985 I’ll take Capper over a pinhead empty suit.

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By: greencarman https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/comment-page-1/#comment-96984 Tue, 10 Apr 2012 01:58:44 +0000 http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=2028#comment-96984 Refer to comment 7…so, Mr. Schneider, you are admitting that you are a Bradley Foundation-sponsored propagandist?

Let me get this straight…The anti-progressive Mr. Schneider is using a progressive argument as a counter to a progressive tradition. However, I’ve never seen so many strawmen in my life regarding Mr. Schneider’s rebuttals to the erudite Professor Fallone.

Anyhoo, refer to source “Lawyers Unite Against Recall”. In the article, several lawyers are noted to oppose the recall election. In particular, Benjamin Poss and George Ballhorn worked for major corporations. Not surprisingly, there was a rift between the liberal and conservative wing of the Republican Party in the early 1900’s. A number of lawyers, including the two I just mentioned, who opposed the recall election had economic interests at stake. It would not be a stretch to surmise that their INTENTIONS to objecting to the recall was motivated by FINANCIAL, rather than POLITICAL, reasons.

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By: ChooChoo https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/comment-page-1/#comment-96983 Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:07:45 +0000 http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=2028#comment-96983 I’d be curious to hear Mr. Schneider’s views on the Jauch recall. Is it justified according to his understanding of the purpose of the recall law?

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By: Christian Schneider https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/comment-page-1/#comment-96982 Mon, 09 Apr 2012 14:24:10 +0000 http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=2028#comment-96982 “You know, I think I would go with the college professor and trained lawyer over the Bradley Foundation-sponsored propagandist.”

Of course, there are numerous Capper posts in which he criticizes Rick Esenberg.

You know what? I’ll take the college professor and trained lawyer over the rotund, mustachioed county employee.

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By: John Foust https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/comment-page-1/#comment-96981 Mon, 09 Apr 2012 13:43:27 +0000 http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=2028#comment-96981 Before you labored for weeks and weeks at the Historical Society (full-time days, 9 to 5?), did you have a preconception of the intent of the Founders as to the nature of recalls? Did you go to the SHS with a desire to find facts to support your prior position, or were you open to find facts that might not support your position?

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By: Wisconsin Factcheck https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/comment-page-1/#comment-96980 Mon, 09 Apr 2012 04:37:11 +0000 http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=2028#comment-96980 “In our judgment, [the recall] is an instrument of popular control of public administration which is useful as applied to executive officials. Its use as to these, we believe, is in its potentiality more largely than its practice, because the frequency of our elections of administrative officers gives the whip-hand over them in any case, and so the recall as it affects them serves more than anything else as an admonition.”

(1) So, in 1926, the _Wisconsin State Journal_ loved the idea of using the recall to hold executive officials accountable, but it reasonably recognized that it wouldn’t be used very often for this purpose with a 2-year election cycle.

It doesn’t take a leap in logic to believe that, faced with a four-year election cycle, these contemporary editorial boards would have still loved the ability of recalls to hold executive officials accountable. The only difference is that with a four-year election cycle the “potentiality” would be translated into “practice.”

So, Mr. Schneider, if the supporters of the recall in 1926 thought that recalls were “an instrument of popular control of public administration which is useful as applied to executive officials,” how can you seriously argue that the current recall campaign “is far different from what the original drafters had envisioned.”

Is not the current recall campaign an “an instrument of popular control of public administration?”

(2) The supporters of the recall law in 1926 realized it would not be used very often for “executive officials” BECAUSE of the existing TWO-YEAR ELECTION CYCLE. Recalls, they reasoned, would be unnecessary to force an early election, because elections happened every two years already.

These recalls have essentially re-instituted the old two-year election cycle for Gov. Walker, which is exactly the system under which the recall supporters operated in 1926.

(See, under pre-1967 rules, the current recall would not be happening, precisely BECAUSE Gov. Walker would have been up for election anyway in 2012!)

Ergo, it could be very easily argued, that, by re-enforcing this old two-year election cycle, the current round of recalls is giving back to the voting public the “whip-hand” they previously enjoyed over “executive officials” during the earlier era of two-year election cycles.

(See, in 1926, the WSJ and other recall proponents loved the two-year election cycle, because of the “whip-hand” it gave the electorate over “executive officials.” You and other supporters of Gov. Walker dimissively call this the “permanent election cycle,” but the people you are using to support your argument called it business as usual. Are you really sure you want to be citing these folk who loved elections every two years to support your view that they didn’t like elections every two years?!)

To repeat, in 1926 the WSJ reasoned recalls would be unneccessary, because the Governor and other “executive officials” faced a two-year election cycle. This round of elections merely re-institutes the two-year election cycle that people knew in 1926.

So, Mr. Schneider, if the current round of recalls merely gives back to the voting public the “whip-hand” of a two-year election cycle it enjoyed over “executive officials” in 1926, how can you seriously argue that the current recall campaign “is far different from what the original drafters had envisioned.”

Using one of your own sources, there are two ways in which the current recall system is very much in line with the ideas of the recall’s proponents in 1926.

I look forward to your response explaining how this two-year election cycle for Gov. Walker is not exactly the situation that your sources supported in 1926, precisely because it gave the “whip-hand” over “executive officials” to the electorate in the form of frequuent elections.

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By: capper https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/comment-page-1/#comment-96979 Mon, 09 Apr 2012 03:39:29 +0000 http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=2028#comment-96979 Y’know, sometimes it doesn’t take a treatise to cut through the crap. The good Professor skewered the propagandist quickly and succinctly. Probably was rather easy since Schneider didn’t offer a lot of solid proof in his argument in the first place. Just twisted logic and obfuscation.

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By: Zippy https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/comment-page-1/#comment-96978 Mon, 09 Apr 2012 03:38:31 +0000 http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=2028#comment-96978 If Christian Schneider’s argument is true, then the key moment in the transformation of the state’s recall law came during the effort by the Wisconsin GOP, the Bradley Foundation and WTMJ-AM to recall Tom Ament and Jim Doyle, and they made it perfectly respectable to consider using the recall as it is being used now. Countless pages, hours and dollars were spent on the subject. Scott Walker even ran an ad congratulated the public for launching the Ament recall. Somehow, this part of the story evaded Schneider in his WPRI essay, his MJS article, and his response to Fallone above. The longer essay goes straight from 1997 to 2010.

And then he wonders why people question his scholarship.

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By: Jenna https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/comment-page-1/#comment-96977 Mon, 09 Apr 2012 03:16:03 +0000 http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=2028#comment-96977 Well, that was a substantive rebuttal to a reasoned reply to his critics by Schneider; namely, that we should believe the professor because he writes qua professor. Thanks Capper!

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By: capper https://www.christianschneiderblog.com/2012/04/08/the-real-history-of-the-recall/comment-page-1/#comment-96976 Mon, 09 Apr 2012 03:03:55 +0000 http://www.wpri.org/blog/?p=2028#comment-96976 You know, I think I would go with the college professor and trained lawyer over the Bradley Foundation-sponsored propagandist. But since Schneider does get paid to try to defend his benefactor’s investments in Walker et al., I reckon he’s just doing his job. Just not doing it very well.

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